The United Sovereign Nations


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1 Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:46 am

Juls

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Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)
As much as I disapprove these elections to be out of character, namely where players are elected to do some kind of obscure job no one really knows about or run for ministries that I didn't witness any sort of work except lately with the so-called census which I won't fill out personally since the USNW has a wiki just for that, I will wish you all good luck.

As of the moment I'm typing this message, none of the candidates explained or remotely promised anything for their campaigns. Now is the time gentlemen, now is the time for you to provide factual information about what you can possibly achieve and what you plan to achieve during your term if elected.

As a member of the USNW with the power, duty and "right" to vote, I shall inform those who will run for a position of my humble concerns as a member.

1: The purpose of the USNW. I have no idea in an In Character matter what is the purpose or nature of existence of the USNW.

2: Why is the USNW mixing OOC and IC? In Character being for example, Sinope communicating with Okaiken; while Out Of Character is for example Juls communicating with Carl. IC is basically roleplay (RP).

3: (related in general to point 1) What is the purpose of the USNW "government" that we're supposedly electing?

Love <3
Juls.

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2 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:05 am

Scotch Moen

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Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)
Our In Character statements are distinguished by italics and or parenthesis. Razz However everything to do with the website, and the "government" positions of the forum are Out Of Character, so yeah, we never really get too serious about our campaigns when we run, but we've been here long enough to already recognized who would be good at what without needing a detailed account of our qualifications and talents. So don't worry about it too much. Wink

Side note I did do a little bit of work with the Safety Ministry but then it took a backseat when everyone stopped paying attention and things started happening elsewhere. I was looking into putting something more in there recently anyway.

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3 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:52 am

Willem

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Member (Bruellen)
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Let's put an end to the mixing!

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4 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:15 pm

I didn't write my official campaign yet Razz cos I am using an iPod at the moment.

Also, the community is closely knit (before you know). I agree with Mike's statements, as one of the top priorities is for the upkeep of the website and to keep it working as a community, not some community out there where the rifts are so far apart.

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5 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:36 pm

Scotch Moen

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Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)
Yeah, what is this, "AIN"? Razz

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6 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:41 pm

Willem

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Member (Bruellen)
Member (Bruellen)
Y'know, when you make statements, It helps if you know what you're talking about. Wink

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7 Re: Message to the candidates on Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:08 am

Jack

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Member (Acadia & Valessia)
Member (Acadia & Valessia)

Thread moved to Discussion Center.


I like our elections the way they are. We elect real people for our governmental positions, not a character.


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8 Re: Message to the candidates on Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:55 am

Kurt

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Admin (Shayden)
Admin (Shayden)
I have to agree with Jack.

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9 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:29 pm

Juls

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Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)
mik_moen wrote:However everything to do with the website, and the "government" positions of the forum are Out Of Character, so yeah, we never really get too serious about our campaigns when we run, but we've been here long enough to already recognized who would be good at what without needing a detailed account of our qualifications and talents. So don't worry about it too much. Wink

I personally wouldn't want to elect the establishment just because it's the establishment. I also wouldn't want to elect people who didn't do anything or IMO improved the union. (Note that that doesn't personally apply to you Mike and is in no case a personal attack)

mik_moen wrote:Side note I did do a little bit of work with the Safety Ministry but then it took a backseat when everyone stopped paying attention and things started happening elsewhere. I was looking into putting something more in there recently anyway.
That's great to know, I'll look forward to see your plans.


Carl wrote:I didn't write my official campaign yet :Pcos I am using an iPod at the moment.
I see.

Carl wrote:Also, the community is closely knit (before you know). I agree with Mike's statements, as one of the top priorities is for the upkeep of the website and to keep it working as a community, not some community out there where the rifts are so far apart.
I don't know what you're trying to refer to or implying, but let me tell you one thing, the USNW is full of flaws, and the mixing of ooc and ic being a major one.

Jack wrote:I like our elections the way they are. We elect real people for our governmental positions, not a character.
Keeping the status quo because it's the status quo... kden.

- "Rant" -

Legend





No structure
Alright so, despite what it looks like, the USNW doesn't have a legitimate in character structure. There are just defacto implied rules between members oocly, but nothing concrete and solid, nothing that is defacto and dejure. Meaning: government doesn't do anything, there is no actual meaning in being part of the USNW in a roleplay perspective besides the out of character perspective which is for us to be able to roleplay.

Solution: make the USNW the "United Nations Organization" of Adonia. Meaning: the USNW stops being whatever it tried to be or is at the moment and becomes a UN-type worldwide (Adonia) organization. Thus, this would implant an In Character purpose to the existence of the USNW, would legitimate the fact nations that are enemies/have tensions or nations that are allies but in different parts of the world or completely neutral or don't even have relations whatsoever, to be in this "union".

Mixing IC and OOC
It doesn't make any sense to elect people out-of-character-ly to positions that are supposed to be in character. Think of it this way, the only difference that it would make to elect characters instead of real life people (us) would be that we could roleplay these characters officially in an in character manner. As such, for example, if the new (elected by member states) Chancellor of USNW is John Smith from Acadia, it'll still be Jack who'll control it. Jack who'll decide what he'll do. It'd be like if we voted for Jack, but we would add something else, something useful for the activity of this union, something that would make sense.

So.
So, I could add a lot of other things, but I won't. Now is not really the time anyways, if I have anything concrete to propose, I'll do it where I should do it. But please, consider my opinion. I don't really mind if you don't agree with me. I actually don't mind at all. These are my concerns and my views. Take them or leave them. The ball is on your side now lads.

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10 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:37 pm

Willem

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Member (Bruellen)
Member (Bruellen)
Amen, my lord.

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11 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:47 pm

Trevy

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Member (New Terrance)
Member (New Terrance)
Diogenes wrote:Solution: make the USNW the "United Nations Organization" of Adonia. Meaning: the USNW stops being whatever it tried to be or is at the moment and becomes a UN-type worldwide (Adonia) organization. Thus, this would implant an In Character purpose to the existence of the USNW, would legitimate the fact nations that are enemies/have tensions or nations that are allies but in different parts of the world or completely neutral or don't even have relations whatsoever, to be in this "union".

I will agree with this statement. This is basically how I have tried to view the USNW.

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12 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:19 pm

Kurt

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Admin (Shayden)
Admin (Shayden)
I was always wondering how the USNW worked. After reading what you said again I do like the idea of USNW being UN-like.

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13 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:14 pm

Jon

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First Minister (Kaskaskia & Insulo)
First Minister (Kaskaskia & Insulo)
I think this definitely something we should at least discuss. A lot of what USNW is now is left over from a time where out-of-character leadership was needed in order to try and grow and sustain the union through some rough times. When this union began there was a consistent need for action by the union leadership, and indeed at that time the cabinet was meeting and making decisions nearly every day.

It has been some time now since there was so much out-of-character leadership was required to keep this union from shattering into a million pieces, and this is reflected in the extreme inactivity of this out-of-character leadership. Even if the leadership of this union is active there is little more for them to do than the average member. As someone who has been in-and-out of leadership roles in this union for the past year I can personally say that being a cabinet member now is basically no different from being a regular member. My own inactivity could account for a significant portion of that assessment, but I never in my past few terms have felt that I had to do anything more than the average user, excepting my duties as a forum moderator.

I personally think that the USNW as a UN for Adonia idea is very appealing, and could help to spur more roleplaying activity as well as making everything we do a bit more realistic. This alone, however, will not completely remedy the problems we have. We need to create a system where the government of the union actually has duties to fulfill, because at this moment the exercise seems rather pointless.

Personally, I don't have a solid plan to solve these problems, nor do I want to propose anything definite without a fairly comprehensive discussion involving everyone who is a member of this union. Now is as good a time as any to start these discussions. I think no matter what your opinions are of where USNW should go it should be fairly evident that there are problems with the way our system is set up right now, and that these problems contribute to the issues we encounter here every day.

I would like to encourage everyone to keep an open mind to other's opinions on this while also stating their own. This affects all of us and I know it can be hard to consider altering the status quo, but I think we all need at least consider changing the way things work around here. I'd really like to know what all of you think.

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14 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:28 pm

Willem

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Member (Bruellen)
Member (Bruellen)
How about semi-permanent administrators that handle all the forum moderation stuff, leaving leadership positions to IC.

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15 Re: Message to the candidates on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:22 pm

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
No permanent or staff please, as this leads to unfair situations

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16 Re: Message to the candidates on Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:09 am

Kurt

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Admin (Shayden)
Admin (Shayden)
Agunter999 wrote:No permanent or staff please, as this leads to unfair situations

.u.

(Just wanted to technically point this out.)

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17 Re: Message to the candidates on Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:45 am

Scotch Moen

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Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)
I wish Chip found more time to come back. This place is his baby after all.

I'm getting flashbacks to the AFDES oh god maek it stahp. But at least we had a good think rolling for a while. We held union summits every couple months, discussed things we could do, threw around some drama'n'such. I remember the second one being particularly entertaining and long winded. (that one was held in Follomer, teehee i am teh best)

To be like the U.N. we'd need to restructure the executive department. I'd suggest to replace the three positions with a broader council or cabinet. I once proposed this but you all shot it down claiming it unnecessary.

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18 Re: Message to the candidates on Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:02 pm

Jack

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Member (Acadia & Valessia)
Member (Acadia & Valessia)
We already have 3 permanent staff members. Razz Chip, Jon, and Kurt. I like the idea of becoming more UN-like, but I would like to know how roleplay would work. Do we "own" one to two nations and roleplay them? Do we own several? Or does anyone have the ability to control any NPC?

If this idea were to happen, there would definitely need to be some kind of roleplay council to be sure that everything is realistic, something the USNW has been somewhat lacking lately, but we're making progress. 

Our government would need a makeover. We'd have new offices/positions that make up some sort of council. And I think the International Assembly should be used much more.

I love all these new ideas. Smile


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19 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:18 pm

Chris

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Member (Mitron)
Member (Mitron)
We could hold a summit in Mitron! Very Happy

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20 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:26 pm

Chip

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Webmaster
Well, hello everyone. Let me start off by saying that I am actually quite thrilled this discussion is occurring. Most of the ideas being presented here are great and we should thoroughly debate and consider all of these concepts. I was asked to help assist in this process so Jon, Jack, and I began meeting last night to discuss some structural reforms for the government of the United Sovereign Nations. We will be officially proposing these ideas soon; however, I'll attempt explain what we have conjured thus far.

What we have been discussing has mainly focused on the governmental and administrative portions of the union. The purpose is streamlining them so as to be more efficient – and realistic -- and to make sure the majority of the union does not hold an executive/ministerial office. While doing that, we are also attempting to ensure that everyone is able to participate in the political, bureaucratic, and administrative processes through the International Assembly, the new USNW Agencies we will be proposing (which replace the Ministries), and the committees we already have (which can/will be reformed as needed).

To begin with, our convention would like to propose the separation and division -- to the furthest extent before becoming inefficient -- of "In Character" and "Out of Character". This would mean having an In Character Government which would only be functional within the confines of the fictional, Adonian world. The participants in this IC Government would be Ambassadors, who are fictional representatives from their respective nations. The IC Government would be headed by an Executive Cabinet and under our proposal the Cabinet would consist of the Chancellor and a Deputy Chancellor, both elected through popular vote by the International Assembly. The Chancellor and Deputy Chancellor will have set responsibilities to be determined by everyone. Also, we would like to propose that the Chancellor have the power of veto. However, vetoes could be overridden by a 2/3 majority vote. Furthermore, the Executive Cabinet would be responsible for appointing the Secretaries, or Heads of the USNW Agencies. The Agencies we would like to propose include the World Health and Safety Agency, the World Finance and Statistics Agency, and the World Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Agency. These agencies would function much like our ministries now, but would have a set list of responsibilities determined by everyone. The appointment of the Agency Secretaries would have to be approved by the International Assembly. The International Assembly would consist of all member nations and their ambassador. The only possible negative implication (it may not be) of this theory would require that all nations (and their subsequent ambassadors) would have one vote, meaning some OOC people would have multiple votes. For example, Jack would have one vote for each of his nations simply because Acadia and Valessia wouldn't agree on everything, especially in the IC world. While this would be fair in the In-Character World, when we have to vote on Out Of Character issues this system would be unfair. Furthermore

So, we decided to completely separate the government. The OOC Government would be headed by the Administrative Council, essentially the founders (Jon and I), plus a third appointed Subordinate Administrator. The Web Master and the Head Admin would appoint this third Subordinate Administrator, but for the sake of checks and balances the appointee would need to be approved. All members (referring to the actual people role-playing the nations) would be part of a Chamber of Members, each person would have one vote. The Chamber of Members would also propose laws that affect the OOC aspects of the union, but could also pass resolutions that would affect the IC World but would not be realistic for the International Assembly to pass. For example, laws like the Adonian Land Protection Act and the removal of Observatory Memberships. While they affect the IC World, it would be unrealistic for an IC International Assembly to propose such laws. It would also be unfair for one person to have more votes than another in circumstances such as this. Furthermore, this Chamber of Members would elect members of the proposed Administrative Committees, as well as a chairperson for these committees. Administrative Committees, such as the current Cartographic Committee, assure that role-play is realistic. Other possible Administrative Committees include a World History Committee or current committees such as the GAW Committee.

Chip

Below are some flow charts and illustrations to help depict this scenario. All debate is welcome and encouraged! Notice in both charts, the IC and OOC government are completely segregated.

Click Here For a Flow Chart



Last edited by Chip on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:27 pm; edited 2 times in total


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21 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:52 pm

Jack

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Member (Acadia & Valessia)
Member (Acadia & Valessia)
Very well written, Chip. Smile A simplified illustration:
Show Image:



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22 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:22 pm

Willem

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Member (Bruellen)
Member (Bruellen)
Uh, Jack. Chip made a flow chart.

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23 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:05 pm

Juls

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Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)
It's still as vague as my proposed USNW reform; that's why it would be a good idea to draft a concise new constitution/charter with the participation of every members with some sort of summit with a thread for each section of the constitution/charter and each issues. There would be logically one for IC aspects and one for OOC aspects, to give solid and effective basis to IC law and OOC rules and protocol.

Post Scriptum: Great to see IC and OOC becoming part of the USNW vocabulary!

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24 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:12 pm

Chip

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Webmaster
Obviously that isn't the charter, I said that was our ideas so far.



Last edited by Chip on Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total


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25 Re: Message to the candidates on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:19 pm

Trevy

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Member (New Terrance)
Member (New Terrance)
Chip, I believe ya'l are on to something great. I like the idea so far.

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