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Juls
Carl
Agunter999
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1Main Discussion  Empty Main Discussion Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:12 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)

Hello, and welcome to this summit! We hope that everyone had a safe and pleasant journey here. Now, as you may know, there have been several bloody riots in the country recently, due to the on-going Bergenstein financial crisis. When the Miet government arrested Modernists who were reportedly creating disorder at several public rallies, they were given a mass show-trial and charged with disturbing the peace, quickly being sentenced to public execution by guillotine. When Margrave Charles of Miensburg – who also holds the title of King-Emperor of Grand and Belluterra – tried to stop the executions, his chief Miet advisors and the leaders of the armed forces put their plans for a long-planned coup d'état into effect. When the Imperial Federal Kingdom heard about the coup d'état against and kidnapping of their King-Emperor, they sent a small peacekeeping force to try and stop the madness; by this point, widespread street fighting had erupted into civil war. The IFK and Mitronian forces eventually managed to take the palace, successfully rescuing the Margrave and his brother and taking the coup leaders into custody; sadly, they were unable to halt the executions of the 160 condemned Modernists. Following days of continued fighting, a tenuous cease fire has put in place to try and find possible solutions to the problem.

2Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:15 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)

Current stances:

Bergenstein Central Government representative: It is not our responsibility to deal with law enforcement in the states, and we are not to blame for the executions. However, we do believe that they were in fact not given proper trials, due to the brief time between arrest and the actual sentencing. However, it is our belief that these people indeed did these crimes, so the outcome would have been the same.

Modernist representative: We are pushing for change in the government structure, so that we may move our nation into the modern world at last. Although the Traditionalists may say differently, we are neither attempting to overthrow the old aristocracy, nor are we looking for complete and total upheaval of the old ways. All we want for Bergenstein is a better economy. Lessening of the ridiculous levels of military spending which have brought this country to its knees. Unification of the state militaries to prevent a recurrence of the disaster that was the Second Khwint War. Granting of more power to the Central Government to allow it to intervene in situations and to have complete control over foreign diplomacy. We would also like to further democratize our government. In short, we want a truly stable Bergenstein.

Traditionalist representative: We value our history, we value our identity, and we believe in our governments – this is why we support them. Any changes at all would drastically destabilise our perfect economy, and would remove our state identities, leaving us as just one more Adonian nation with absolutely zero internal identity. We have always had such great diversity in our nation; it would be a great national shame to lose it. The current system still can and does work flawlessly. The hundred and sixty Modernists who were publically executed all got what they deserved; they were breaking the peace all across Miensburg, disturbing our colleagues greatly.



Last edited by Agunter999 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:14 pm; edited 2 times in total

3Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:28 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)

Current State Stances:

Berge Representative: The Low Kingdom of Berge has historically been a great supporter of the state system; however, we now believe that major modernisation needs to happen. We are not suggesting a change in currencies unless absolutely necessary, but we do advocate finding a more stable way of having them. More transparency is definitely required and the people’s opinion matters. In the case of Miensburg, we do not side with the Traditionalists in any way. What they did is wrong: arrests without warrant, no proper trial, and a gory mass execution in public. These things are never acceptable, and we are utterly ashamed that a fellow state would ever do such a thing.

Litheniant Representative: As you know, we are not part of mainland Bergenstein. Thus, we have not experienced problems anywhere near to the degree that other states have had. However, it is our opinion that a change of economic system in this state, at least, would be little more than a cosmetic difference from the old system.

Lorona representative: We absolutely and utterly oppose any form of central government. We believe it is entirely up to the states to control their population and economy. We have used a feudal system of governance successfully in our state for hundreds of years, and see no reason to change it now. As a government, we have the highest approval rating of any state, and our leaders are the second-wealthiest of any state. A new system would bring complete ruin to our society and culture.

Shwieset representative: We have the most developed economy in Bergenstein, and are the centre of trade for the entire nation. It is our government’s belief that trade using our own currency will not ever destabilise our economy, which continues to be in pristine condition. We are a shining example of our system successfully put into action. We also believe that the execution of the hundred and sixty Modernist prisoners was entirely legal and was morally justified; the laws of Miensburg clearly instruct that any actions which can possibly be construed as rebellious in any way are punishable by death via guillotine. The courts were simply following standard procedure.

Trierenstien representative: We completely agree with the statement of the honourable representative from Berge.

Danskmarkensweg representative: As a distant exclave of Bergenstein, we have seen few of the troubles that have plagued the rest of the country. We have not had any rebellions or financial crises, and therefore we abstain from further comment at this point.

Werdrecht representative:  We believe that the current state system can work in theory. However, the complete blockage of economic information by the Central Government was wrong, and every state in Bergenstein has had to pay the price as a result. The state governments had no idea that the economy was so bad; the Central Government has let us down on that front. Therefore, we believe that what the issue here really is, is the downtrodden state of our economy and how to fix it without losing our beloved currencies

Miensburg representative: We did what our laws say. We executed criminals that committed crimes that clearly and indisputably warrant the death penalty. This is a matter of identity; we states each have our own way of life, and centralising it would remove all those little kinks that make up our identity. It is indisputable: we acted correctly. Our coup is also entirely justifiable. You see, we know and will now tell you that the Margrave was acting out of his power by requesting that a “fair” retrial of the condemned be held, defying the constitution to which he was bound. He was no longer a suitable leader, and so we replaced him.

Coutony representative: We completely support the actions of our closest ally, the Lordship of Miensburg. The executions were a just and necessary action, as well as an affair steeped in national traditions going back centuries. Therefore, we will support Miensburg fully.

Cellmradon representative: We, as representatives of the government of Cellmradon, declare that no band of pitiful little rebels living in the backwoods of Bergenstein will ever force us to give up or change in any way.

Brendemland representative: We will not stand for any acts of unlawful violence on any street, be it in Brendemland or on the other side of Adonia. We like stability; change only brings instability, which causes the collapses of empires. We don’t want Bergenstein to collapse.

Verana representative: For a long time, we, the government of Verana, have been far too quiet on the matter – no longer, however. First off, we would like to congratulate the leaders of the Miensburg coup d'état for their swift actions, which will have successfully discouraged many (but sadly, by no means all) Modernists from protesting against the status quo. We were not a poor state, thanks to our large tourist industry – did you know that, according to government-funded research, 99.99% of visiting tourists used our state currency in transactions instead of the national one? However, this recent financial crash and the illegal protests have hurt our tourist industry dramatically, dealing further damage to our economy. We ask that all Modernists immediately cease these illegal protests and uprisings against the government, so that all of our economies can recover. If the violence does not stop voluntarily, we will put an end to it.


Let the discussions begin!

4Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:32 pm

Carl

Carl

We would like to welcome the representatives here in Okashi. A flight to Toyoshi has been scheduled for the Bergenstein Representatives.

http://oktimes.canadian-forum.com

5Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:00 pm

Juls

Juls
Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)

Ladies and gentlemen, as requested and allowed by the Doge of Sinope, Diogenes, I, Constantin Chalastanis, current ambassador to Bergenstein, will act as the official representative for the Sinope Republic in this summit.

I would like to request every representatives to not discuss of the executions that happened in Bergenstein. The matter is dealt by the USNW Court of Justice as part of the human rights violation claims. However, an independent investigation is required to determine the events in a legal and outside perspective. As I recall, the government of Bergenstein agreed to this investigation. I propose a USNW lead team of experts to be send as soon as possible in Bergenstein to investigate while a cease-fire is currently established.

As for the matters of the nation of Bergenstein itself and its profound instability which caused the ongoing civil war, I believe a nation-wide referendum on the question of the currency is needed. I also believe that, as the states are so divided over the issues, the question of the Bergenstein unity can be asked. Is the current union working? Should the union be changed?

I would like to hear other representatives' thoughts before I continue. Mr. Pavlov, any comments from Relastova?


C.C.
Constantin Chalastanis
Sinopian Ambassador to Bergenstein
_______________________________________________________________

Yes, thank you Mr. Chalastanis. Ladies and gentlemen, as representative of the Relastovan Federation, I must completely ignore the statement of the representative of this so-called state of Litheniant. As of the matters in the agenda, I agree with my Sinopian colleague about the urgent need for an investigation team to be created and investigating the alleged human rights abuses in Bergenstein before the situation gets out of hands.

On behalf of the Relastovan people, I would like to thank the nation and states of Bergenstein to have agreed to hold this summit and for the current cease-fire. We hope the hostility and violence in the region will cease and dialogue will prevail for the security of the region.

From the point of views and opinions of each states and the central government of Bergenstein, it seems, according to my observation, that Bergenstein is really split up between two main ideas. Could it solve any problem if the current union was broken and instead, the states of Bergenstein would either remain independent or form a new union with states that have the same opinion on the matter? I know my comparison here is rather simplistic, but it seems to me like a good solution for the end of this conflict considering the states are so divided. Thank you.


A.P.P.
Alexei Pavlovich Pavlov
Relastovan Ambassador to Bergenstein

6Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:23 am

Scotch Moen

Scotch Moen
Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)

Gregory Hanson
Follandan Foreign Representative
- - -

*Representative Hanson stands from his chair, disgruntled.*

I have traveled several thousand miles to relay the sentiment that Chancellor Moen is utterly appalled at Bergenstein's harsh treatment of its citizenry. Death penalty for Disturbing the Peace?? Public executions by beheading?! I apologize but what era are we living in again? The Follandan Government cannot see any reason to be sympathetic to Bergenstein, or it's State when they allow such acts. The Modernists have the right to speak out for a better life, Representatives, and I can say for certainty that the Follandan Government agrees with me.

I'd also like to question why the Bergenstein Central Government doesn't have a more secure grasp on legal matters in its States, since they are within the Bergenstein borders, are they not? To have such disregard for them, you might as well make them their own sovereign nations.

http://www.dehyan.deviantart.com

7Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:18 am

Daniel

Daniel

His Imperial and Royal Highness, Luke Alexander John Keitenburg-Petersroy, Prince Imperial, Khedive of Zebtese, Viscount Tranquil, Viscount Skarr, and Viscount Long Creek
Representative of the Imperial Federal Kingdom of Grand, Belluterra, and Malo

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

*Prince Luke gets up from his seat and starts to speak*

On behalf of the entire Imperial Federal Kingdom, I would like to declare that I agree in full with the statement of the honorable Representative Hanson from Folland. Such a flagrant and outrageous disregard for human life cannot be condoned; even if such atrocities have been done repeatedly for the past few centuries, that does not give the perpetrators carte blanche to continue them. We are living in the twenty-first century - this is supposed to be an era of greater civilization, knowledge, and peace, not an era of backwards customs, ignorance, and war. Arguments that this cruel deed is central to Miet culture are irrelevant; if it was, than we would be seeing this happen far more often. Instead, what we see is that no one has been known to be publicly executed by guillotine in Miensburg since the end of the Great Adonian War. This is not the hallmark of something that would be a central part of a modern, ostensibly civilized, culture. Just because something is a national tradition does not make it a good thing.

I also agree with the honorable Representative Chalastanis from Sinope; a national referendum must be held on the subject of a single currency for the nation. It is clear that the current economic system in Bergenstein is what has destabilized the economy so that its many currencies are now all but worthless, save perhaps as collectors' items - why, the Bergen currencies have been so devalued that the very metals that the coins are made of are now worth more than the coins themselves! Such conditions are not healthy for any economy, and as for the economies of Bergenstein, already so weakened by instability over the past few decades, continuing such a course is simply unsupportable.

As an example of a multinational country that has successfully been united under a single united leadership and currency, I need look no further than my very own home country. There are three different nations in the Imperial Federal Kingdom - the Kingdom of Grand, the Empire of Belluterra, and the Sultanate of Malo - each with their own customs, traditions, and ways of life. Did we, by asking them to lose their separate currencies in order to unite under a single one, and to change their forms of governance so that they may unite under a single ruling council, change them? Maybe. In doing so, did we bring utter ruin to their economies and eliminate their separate cultures? Absolutely not! Indeed, the Imperial Federal Kingdom is now a shining example of three different countries overcoming their many differences to work together in harmony and friendship.

And as for the Miet accusation that my brother the King was acting out of his bounds as Margrave of Miensburg, I simply have this to say to the honorable representatives attending this summit: were you in that situation, would you, in good conscience, order the execution of a hundred and sixty people for crimes they may not have committed, after being found guilty at an improperly-held trial that was entirely biased against them, and joyfully proclaim them traitors with each stroke of the guillotine's blade? Or would you, like he did, order a stay of execution for them and demand a fairly-held retrial and possible release for them, no matter the consequences?

That is all that I have to say at the moment. Thank you for your time.


*Prince Luke bows to those in attendance and seats himself back down*

8Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:33 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)

Berge Representative:
I couldn’t agree more with the right honourable gentleman from the Imperial Federal Kingdom when it comes to the topic of the Miet atrocities. This is the twenty-first century, and so eighteenth-century activities such as these should be halted and those held accountable be brought to true justice. However, I am afraid that one of the facts he laid out is sadly incorrect in parts. Our intelligence service has uncovered damning evidence in the past that private executions by guillotine are a common occurrence in Miensburg. This is unfortunately little-known even among the people of Bergenstein, due to the secrecy with which this is done.

Prince Luke of the Imperial Federal Kingdom:
My point about the executions still stands, however.

Miensburg Representative:
*stands up sharply* How dare you accuse our government of guillotining people in secret! I want your evidence. This summit is for facts and solutions, not scandals and lies!

Berge Representative:
*calmly* We have videotapes of the secret executions of Miet participants in the 1983 revolutions, among other pieces of evidence. Would you like to see them, sir? *silence; Miensburg representative sits back down* I thought not. Now, I would also like to hear from the Couts on this point.

Coutony Representative:
We have nothing to add at this point, unless that is an accusation, sir? In that case, Coutony denies ever having guillotined people behind closed doors.

Berge Representative:
You may have not had people face the guillotine; however, you have certainly executed people in secret, behind closed doors without trial. Isn’t it the Coutony “tradition” to hang people? And is that method not also illegal according to the United Sovereign Nations’ Charter? And do not argue: we will repeat again, if any of the honourable gentlemen in this room wish to see our evidence, they are welcome to view it. *Cout representative sits down defeated.* Now, the Low Kingdom of Berge is willing to put a statewide referendum into place as soon as possible, giving the people the option to choose between having a single national currency, or for some form of preservation for the separate currencies, but allowing major changes in the economics of Bergenstein all the same, or for no change to take place.

Trierenstien Representative:
We will also put the poll proposed by the honourable Berge representative into action as soon as possible, with its results hopefully coming in by the second of September.

9Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:07 am

Juls

Juls
Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)

Ladies and gentlemen, order please, for the love of the gods. I expressively requested to not talk about the alleged human rights abuses in this summit to not come to this kind of hearty debates over who's in the wrong. Mr. Representative for Berge, if you have any kind of evidence of your allegations you want to show, submit them to the Court of Justice of the USNW. Once again, Mr. Hanson, Mr. the Prince, honourable representatives in this meeting, it is not a question of who did what and who's in the wrong, but rather a question of what to do to solve this crisis and how to fix this country, at this moment. So please, shall we continue to debate on the solutions to this crisis?

I request the Bergenstein governments to allow a USNW-lead independent investigation team to investigate the alleged human rights abuses in the country.


C.C.
Constantin Chalastanis
Sinopian Ambassador to Bergenstein

10Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:41 pm

Carl

Carl

Ryushi Marubeni, Governor of Toyoshi
Organizer of the Third USNW Summit


~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I would like to remind the participants that the summit is about finding a resolution for this conflict and not about the human rights violations committed by the states of Bergenstein during the state's civil conflict. Like what the representative of Sinope mentioned above, the topic shall be raised at the USNW Court of Justice, not here at the summit.

I would like to introduce to you now his Right Honourable Prime Minister of Okaiken.




His Right Honourable Toshiro Kurosawa, MP OC
Prime Minister of Okaiken


~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Ladies and Gentleman, On behalf of the nation of Okaiken, I agree completely with the statement released by our representative of Sinope. Maybe the real solution here is a national referendum for change: Is it really time to replace the local currencies with a national one? For that reason, I would like to offer to Bergenstein the Imperial Sanese Mint for the production of its national currency, That's if the states agree that they would change to the national currency instead of the states' local currency.

I would like to add that the local currency is good for local trade, but this is not good for markets who has to convert the currency from one place to another. without a national currency, interstate drivers would have difficulty converting the currency when they go out of their locale. Tourists would be affected when they go to a short camping trip out of the state. The merchandise market would be affected when their goods are from another state. The local currency just does not make sense if the whole nation is affected by it. Due to its local currency, the economy is so badly damaged in Bergenstein, it started to drag other nations close to the nation.

I would like to remind Bergenstein that tradition and modernism can coexist. Our nation of Okaiken is a perfect example of the balance between tradition and modernism. Some of the traditions could stay and some had become unacceptable. The question of tradition and progress have once lay here in Okaiken during the Bakumatsu Period. The smaurai class was abolished because it hinders the progress of the economy and the national currency established. However, that does not mean that certain traditions can happen. Festivals still showcase what the past looked like here in Okaiken. Certain grocery stores like Ministop still had their local currency as a form of rewards. Local trade is still evident here with the use of grocery points cards and yet, due to its national unity, Okaiken prospers as a technological yet traditional nation. The question for Bergenstein is that if they could balance their tradition and progress. And for that reason, I would like Bergenstein to consider a bicameral house system used by Okaiken during its finest hour: THE HOUSE OF LORDS and THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thank you for your cooperation.

http://oktimes.canadian-forum.com

11Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:17 pm

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)

Bergenstein Central Government representative:
We must inform you that we do have such a currency for interstate uses, called the Skiler. It must be accepted by national law; however, it is infrequently used. We would also inform you that we do not require the services of your mint, as we have a surprisingly large quantity of them at home.

12Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:30 pm

Carl

Carl

The Sanese Mint also prints Money and that are the ones we offer to you.

You can continue making coins at your mint; its just the bills that are of issue. By offering you state of the art technology only available at printing the Enieo and the Sanese En, we could get rid of the high amounts of counterfeiting.

Thank you.

http://oktimes.canadian-forum.com

13Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:40 pm

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)

We shall consider the offer if a change of currency is decided

14Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:57 pm

Juls

Juls
Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)

Relastova would like to put forward talks on a possible armistice between the two parties. It will insure a complete cessation of hostilities and of all acts of armed force in Bergenstein until a final peaceful settlement is achieved.

A.P.P.
Alexei Pavlovich Pavlov
Relastovan Ambassador to Bergenstein

15Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:05 am

Scotch Moen

Scotch Moen
Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)

*Representative Hanson returns to his seat, cups his hands on the table*

My statement, and sentiment about what happened is said. Now I'll get to the, as you said, "solution" the Follandan Government wishes to bring forward.

*clears his throat*

Ladies and Gentlemen, as of right now, the Follandan Government  views the Bergenstein Traditionalists as a radical, criminal faction. The beheading of the 160 demonstrators will be seen as counts of First Degree Murder. We respectfully request the Berge Government to track down and arrest every Traditionalist who took part in the unlawful executions.

*looks directly at the Traditionalist Representative*

The world has moved on from your backwards ideology, and "traditions". We also move to have the Berge Central Government completely unify the Bergenstein States into a finally singular nation. The days of Nation States is long past and unless you prefer to exert the massive amounts of effort, time, and money into keeping your country stable, Bergenstein should become one, unified, Bergenstein. 

http://www.dehyan.deviantart.com

16Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:03 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)

After full agreement of all parties Bergenstein will allow an investigation of the issued mentioned.

17Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:13 am

Juls

Juls
Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)

We appreciate your cooperation. Sinope will send 3 experts from YAK to investigate the alleged human rights abuse. They will arrive in the USNW headquarters in Francistown. We expect other USNW nations to send as well experts to the formation of this international independent investigation team.

C.C.
Constantin Chalastanis
Sinopian Ambassador to Bergenstein

18Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:02 pm

Willem

Willem
Member (Bruellen)
Member (Bruellen)

Brullen will send experts to form part of this investigation team.

19Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:09 pm

Daniel

Daniel

The Imperial Federal Kingdom will also participate in this investigation.

20Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:39 am

Scotch Moen

Scotch Moen
Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)

I hope your teams enjoy their scavenger hunt while risking their lives in a destabilized region.


(I'm sorry, I'm being really snooty. Razz )

http://www.dehyan.deviantart.com

21Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:51 am

Jon

Jon
First Minister (Kaskaskia & Insulo)
First Minister (Kaskaskia & Insulo)

The Insulonian Security Service will send several experts to participate in this investigation.

Kaskaskia will not participate in this investigation.

22Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:21 am

Juls

Juls
Member (Sinope)
Member (Sinope)

mik_moen wrote:(I'm sorry, I'm being really snooty. Razz )
Shouldn't have put that as an official Foll statement Wink

Under the current ceasefire, there is theoretically no danger to investigate. Sinope believes both sides have interests for future relations to not harm the investigative team. Of course Folland is welcome to send experts, but considering its history, it might as well not... We don't want a coup d'état inside the team. It has nothing to do with a scavenger hunt, referring to it as so is highly insulting to the lives lost in the Bergenstein Civil War and shameful from the Foll regime. This investigation is highly important and a top priority to solve this crisis. The presence of Euphemian Bloc experts is not needed. Althenan nations can deal with its own expertise which is frankly way better.

((Just putting more oil on fire))

23Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:04 pm

Scotch Moen

Scotch Moen
Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)

(You're hitting a tender soft spot whenever you call their Government a "regime". Razz )

No comment.

http://www.dehyan.deviantart.com

24Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:48 am

Willem

Willem
Member (Bruellen)
Member (Bruellen)

The government of the Brullen Federation wishes that Folland stay out of these events until the situation at home is resolved.

25Main Discussion  Empty Re: Main Discussion Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:11 pm

Carl

Carl

Okaiken will not be participating at the investigation.

This is the final day for discussions. All issues must be resolved by 10:00 pm CDT

http://oktimes.canadian-forum.com

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