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26 Re: Census on Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:33 am

Scotch Moen

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Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)
Okaiken and I is leaving so yeah

But...but...I love Okaikenz.

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27 Re: Census on Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:00 am

SimEmirate

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Member (Abbasid and Kwangju)
Member (Abbasid and Kwangju)
Yeah..

I think it's time for me to leave USNW too. Good luck guys.  Razz Locky 

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28 Re: Census on Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:21 am

Also, I’m giving Dryan full control of the Okaiken Islands

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29 Re: Census on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:40 am

Kurt

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Admin (Shayden)
Admin (Shayden)
I'm so sorry to see that you two are leaving. I have something I need to decide now then.

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30 Re: Census on Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:09 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
I think we need the question to be does anyone whish to continue

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31 Re: Census on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:16 pm

Scotch Moen

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Oh for the love of holy beans people.

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32 Re: Census on Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:22 pm

Whoa, you folks are actually talking about ending the USNW?! :O

Suffice it to say that I'm more than surprised - indeed, I'm shocked, and I'm not even one of your members. While relations between our two unions have never been pleasant, I certainly never expected to see y'all start talking about disbandment.

That being said, I have an alternative for you to consider. If you do end up deciding not to keep the USNW going, perhaps it would be better to disband it by merging into the AIN. Our two unions have a common origin, and reuniting them could be an important step towards healing the rift between us. I've actually been working on a potential treaty for that purpose; if you think this idea is worth pursuing, I'd be glad to post it for your consideration.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the merger I'm suggesting would keep Adonia as it is, adding it to AIN on an equal footing with Earth. No nations would be lost.

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33 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:19 am

Scotch Moen

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Member (Folland)
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EDIT: Just to clarify, the merger I'm suggesting would keep Adonia as it is, adding it to AIN on an equal footing with Earth. No nations would be lost.

Not following how that would work out.

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34 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:27 am

ForthWall

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Member (Kuyrut)
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woodb3kmaster wrote:
That being said, I have an alternative for you to consider. If you do end up deciding not to keep the USNW going, perhaps it would be better to disband it by merging into the AIN. Our two unions have a common origin, and reuniting them could be an important step towards healing the rift between us. I've actually been working on a potential treaty for that purpose; if you think this idea is worth pursuing, I'd be glad to post it for your consideration.

If we disbanded, a merger with ain all would just be giving you assets. :\



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35 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:33 am

Juls

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Member (Sinope)
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woodb3kmaster wrote:That being said, I have an alternative for you to consider. If you do end up deciding not to keep the USNW going, perhaps it would be better to disband it by merging into the AIN. Our two unions have a common origin, and reuniting them could be an important step towards healing the rift between us. I've actually been working on a potential treaty for that purpose; if you think this idea is worth pursuing, I'd be glad to post it for your consideration.

Ohhh am I invited? Very Happy

ForthWall wrote:If we disbanded, a merged with ain all would just be giving you free stuff m8

That's probably what he wants since AIN is shiet Razz

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36 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:06 am

Scotch Moen wrote:Not following how that would work out.

What's so hard to follow about a union containing two different planets? If you'd like to read what I've already come up with, I'd be happy to post the draft of my proposal.

Blakeway4 wrote:Ohhh am I invited? Very Happy

All current USNW members would be allowed to join AIN without an application if this proposal passes. That includes CINL turncoats like you. I'll even overlook the insults you just posted here. Razz

ForthWall wrote:If we disbanded, a merged with ain all would just be giving you free stuff m8

Not the way I envision it. The active members you still have would also gain the ability to have nations on both planets, not to mention the extensive political and roleplay opportunities available in the combined union. Of course, if your animosity towards us makes you prefer to take part in the crumbling of both of your unions, I certainly won't try to stop you. Razz

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37 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:08 am

ForthWall

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Member (Kuyrut)
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woodb3kmaster wrote:

Not the way I envision it. The active members you still have would also gain the ability to have nations on both planets, not to mention the extensive political and roleplay opportunities available in the combined union. Of course, if your animosity towards us makes you prefer to take part in the crumbling of both of your unions, I certainly won't try to stop you. Razz

So it's a merger Razz Meh, idc, it's up to the whole of the union


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38 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:07 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Would both have planets know the other existed?? And am I even invited?

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39 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:28 am

Agunter999 wrote:Would both have planets know the other existed?? And am I even invited?

1. Not according to my current draft of the proposal. It isn't scientifically realistic to suppose that Earth and Adonia can contact each other, so nations on one planet wouldn't be able to deal with nations on the other planet. However, if enough of your members are open to the merger idea, that could change, based on how negotiations go.

2. If you're still in the USNW if/when the merger is approved, yes. As I told Juls, all USNW members who want to remain in the combined union will be allowed to do so. Just don't make me regret it. Razz

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40 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:06 am

City_Master

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Member (Septentria)
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A merger of some sort sounds good Razz

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41 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:21 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
If we were to merge wouldn't it be better to full merge, bringing both world completely together, also we as a union are not really a sc4 union so you should take that into account but it could help to revive the whole death of unions which is slowly happening Smile

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42 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:50 am

Scotch Moen

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Member (Folland)
Member (Folland)
Keeping the Earth roleplay and the Adonian roleplay separate would mean creating an entire new subforum in your site for us "refugees". Would that be just too much effort for the few of us that are left? I mean already half of us if not more don't care about the group anymore. Not to mention those of us that did come to the USN, it was because our roleplay was not on Earth. We had the free reign of an entirely new planet not bound by the restrictions of an already established society of real life nations and politics. I doubt Folland or Bergenstein or Bruellen would want to bend over backwards for the United States or the European Union.

I appreciate your offer, it's a kind gesture and honestly a welcome one. And even though I personally don't have knowledge of your personal history with the more veteran users here who claim you're evil, I apologize for their remarks. That's another reason this union has suffocated. Some of the users here stopped caring about civility toward others.

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43 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:54 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
I don't think Zach is suggesting that we place our nations on the ain map, I think he suggests us keeping our beloved Adonia (and Bergenstein would not put up with the EU) The problems lie where we have very different ways of running the union so if it was to happen we need it to be well thought out

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44 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:04 am

Kurt

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Admin (Shayden)
Admin (Shayden)
The offer is kind, though I am not personally interested.

I feel that USNW just needs to be put away. It needs to rest in peace. I keep thinking of USNW being similar to a movie series. USNW for example was great for the longest time, members loved it, it was active, etc. Though the series has been decreasing in quality and productivity, it won't be getting any better. So instead of trying to keep it alive longer in hopes of it improving, I would rather just end the series at this point.

I am pretty sure Chip, K50, and Jon wouldn't really enjoy the idea either. USNW was basically made by Separatist-AIN members anyway.

I have interest in maybe joining AIN again, but I really think USNW should just be laid to rest and members who want to apply to AIN should do it on their own accord.

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45 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:20 pm

Agunter999 wrote:If we were to merge wouldn't it be better to full merge, bringing both world completely together, also we as a union are not really a sc4 union so you should take that into account but it could help to revive the whole death of unions which is slowly happening Smile

I assume you mean allowing roleplay between Earth and Adonia; please correct me if I'm wrong. Despite my misgivings about the scientific implausibility of that idea, I'm open to it in the spirit of compromise. However, if we do implement it, we'd have to either (a) work out exactly how it would work, including what interactions would and wouldn't be possible, and how they'd be possible; or (b) handwave it and allow everything to happen, with no explanation of how, because magic. Razz I don't know which option is more likely to get wide support, if either. However, if enough of your members are open to the possibility of a merger, we can discuss it during the negotiations.

As for the whole "not strictly an SC4 union" thing - neither are we. Razz We've noticed the trouble other unions have been facing recently, and we're keenly aware that we can't rely on one game if we want to keep our union alive. It's also my belief that we shouldn't rely on just one planet, either; unions like the USNW demonstrate how much interest there is in non-Earth-based roleplay. If unions are to survive beyond the life expectancy of SC4 (or any other game), we'll need to be open to new ideas and new forms of roleplay. Merging our two unions, if it happens, would be the first step in that direction.

Scotch Moen wrote:Keeping the Earth roleplay and the Adonian roleplay separate would mean creating an entire new subforum in your site for us "refugees". Would that be just too much effort for the few of us that are left? I mean already half of us if not more don't care about the group anymore. Not to mention those of us that did come to the USN, it was because our roleplay was not on Earth. We had the free reign of an entirely new planet not bound by the restrictions of an already established society of real life nations and politics. I doubt Folland or Bergenstein or Bruellen would want to bend over backwards for the United States or the European Union.

As I just explained to Agunter, I'm open to compromise on the whole keeping-roleplay-separate thing. As for the second part of your comments, I think Agunter has already done a good job explaining what a merger would entail:

Agunter999 wrote:I don't think Zach is suggesting that we place our nations on the ain map, I think he suggests us keeping our beloved Adonia (and Bergenstein would not put up with the EU) The problems lie where we have very different ways of running the union so if it was to happen we need it to be well thought out

Under any possible merger I can think of, Adonia would not change; nor would any of the nations on it. You would all be free to keep interacting with each other as you already do here, but you'd also be able to add a nation on Earth if you wanted to.

Scotch Moen wrote:I appreciate your offer, it's a kind gesture and honestly a welcome one. And even though I personally don't have knowledge of your personal history with the more veteran users here who claim you're evil, I apologize for their remarks. That's another reason this union has suffocated. Some of the users here stopped caring about civility toward others.

Thank you, Mike. I'm pleased to accept your apology on their behalf. I only wish more of both our unions' members were more inclined to act so civilly.

Kurt wrote:The offer is kind, though I am not personally interested.

I feel that USNW just needs to be put away. It needs to rest in peace. I keep thinking of USNW being similar to a movie series. USNW for example was great for the longest time, members loved it, it was active, etc. Though the series has been decreasing in quality and productivity, it won't be getting any better. So instead of trying to keep it alive longer in hopes of it improving, I would rather just end the series at this point.

I am pretty sure Chip, K50, and Jon wouldn't really enjoy the idea either. USNW was basically made by Separatist-AIN members anyway.

I have interest in maybe joining AIN again, but I really think USNW should just be laid to rest and members who want to apply to AIN should do it on their own accord.

I understand and respect your feelings on the matter, Kurt. However, I think it would only be fair to allow all of your remaining members to consider the merger idea. After all, what if the core of the USNW can be revived and raised to a new level? Don't those members who still care about your community deserve to give that a try?

I'd like to see the members here have an opportunity to consider my formal proposal in a more appropriate setting than this thread. Just let me know where it would be best to propose it, and I will. (At least, as soon as I figure out how to display a PDF in a post here... Razz)

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46 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:42 pm

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
You should post it here http://www.usnw.net/f229-debate-chamber and use standard HTML embedding Wink

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47 Re: Census on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:17 pm

Kurt

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Admin (Shayden)
Admin (Shayden)
I agree with allowing members to consider the idea. This is a democracy, I was saying I personally didn't care for the idea. I didn't mean to speak for everyone. Expectations of good quality is usually what makes something flop.

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48 Re: Census on Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:25 am

Agunter999


Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
Member (Bergenstein & Kallvarde)
I say we withhold from making opinions until the official proposal is created

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49 Re: Census on Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:12 pm

Okay, the proposal is up for formal discussion now: http://www.usnw.net/t2252-proposal-treaty-of-unification-with-the-ain

I've also posted it in the AIN's Members' Assembly for their consideration. I'm sure that both our unions' members will want to discuss possible changes to the treaty as I've written it. Everything in it is open for discussion and possible changes, so you don't need to worry about it being a "take it or leave it" proposal. Smile

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50 Re: Census on Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:27 am

Willem

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Member (Bruellen)
Member (Bruellen)
Personally, I think the only way to conduct a merger would be to create a completely new planet and have all member states be located there, although it would be a large undertaking. It then makes sure there is no division between members, and it makes it much easier for prospective applicants who would like larger nations but can not fit it onto Earth's limited space, as shown recently on your forums. It might also please many existing members would would like the chance to modify their nations without having to fit into the the strict confines of Earth.

If it was to go ahead with the nations being separate, then I don't really see the point as the nations in Earth and Adonia would not have any contact with each other, effectively functioning as a union within a union.

Just my thoughts.

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